[Catalyst] re catinabox -- have you ever actually done this on a non-root server? Re: Catalyst Documentation

[Thomas Hartman]

Catalyst is so heavily tied in to DBIC that I don't think I want to go
that route.

And since CatInTheBox doesn't include DBIC, I wouldn't suggest that either.

Barring more positive experiences, I stick to my assertion that if the
"heavy" version can't be easily installed in a non root environment,
then new users should be warned away from doing so until and unless
this is sorted out.

There are XEN/UML plans for only ten dollars more a month than
dreamhost, after all. And I think many catalyst new adopters are
likely to be people who have outgrown php, want to try something with
a bit more flexibility, and have *some* degree of unix/systems
knowhow. This type of user will view configuring a new server from
scratch as a challenge and a learning experience IF that is what they
are told from the outset that that is what they will have to do, and
the wiki has good handholding in this regard.

But if you try to sell catalyst as something appropriate for a shared
(non root) environment, and that's not really so, that will reflect
badly on the project.

That said, I will try the shadowcat installer in my relatively virgin
dreamhost account and see how that goes.

thomas.

2006/6/1, Bill Moseley <moseley at hank.org>:
> On Thu, Jun 01, 2006 at 01:05:51PM +0200, Thomas Hartman wrote:
> > have you actually tried this on a shared (non root) server?
>
> Yes, I have a Cat running on a Dreamhost machine.  It's a dedicated
> server, but it's set up very similar to their shared machines, same
> perl, installed modules, etc., AFAIK.
>
> > CPAN kept saying, can't do this without sudo
> > this, and asking me if I should install such and so dependency (even
> > though I had follow turned on in my cpan config). Dependency hell.
>
> Ya, it sucked when I did it, too.  I remember having this error early
> on, but I seemed to have fixed it.
>
>     You are not allowed to write to the directory
>         '/usr/local/share/perl/5.8.4';
>
> but that might be due to the fact that one of the first things I did
> was to upgrade CPAN.pm.  I upgraded CPAN.pm because setting up
> MyConfig.pm like the Calendar suggests didn't work.  Unfortunately,
> upgrading CPAN.pm didn't solve the problem I was having.
>
> The problem I was having was that Makefile.PL and Module::Build
> packages are not handled the same by CPAN.pm and when install would
> fail I'd have to go in and modify my MyConfig.pm.
>
> I have in MyConfig.pm:
>
>   # Swap these lines when CPAN pukes
>    'makepl_arg' => q[INSTALLDIRS=site install_base=/home/moseley/local],
>   # 'makepl_arg' => q[INSTALLDIRS=site PREFIX=/home/moseley/local],
>   mbuildpl_install_arg => q[INSTALLDIRS=site install_base=/home/moseley/local],
>
> So every so often CPAN would bomb saying install_base or PREFIX not
> supported and I'd have to go edit MyConfig.pm.  I ended up
> hand-installing quite a few modules instead of using CPAN.pm.
>
>
> > Supposedly cpanplus improves things significantly, if you have the
> > right linux kernel, if you have the right version of perl... if, if
> > if. Eventually I just gave up.
>
> Supposedly.  I tried cpanplus and has worse luck than with CPAN.
>
> All this is crazy, of course.  For the vast majority of the modules I
> needed to install all that needs to be done is have them copied to
> the right location.  A single tarball with Catalyst and a big chuck
> of the plugins could be installed with a single tar zf command in
> about 10 seconds.
>
> Cat-in-a-box is the way to go.  There just needs to be a "heavy"
> version that contains the recommended dose of plugins and helper
> modules.
>
> Here's where my install stands now:
>
>     $ find local -name \*.pm | wc -l
>     1329
>
>     $ du -sh local
>     34M     local
>
>     $ find local -type f | grep Catalyst | wc -l
>     170
>
>     $ find local -name \*.pm | grep Catalyst | wc -l
>     65
>
>     $ find local -name \*.pm | grep Plugin | wc -l
>     68
>
> I'll bet there's a big part of that my Cat application never touches.
>
> If you want, email me off list and I'll tar it up for you.  You might
> be able to just unpack it someplace and be ready to go.  Or it might
> blow up.  It doesn't have DBIC, and I'm using my own versions of some
> plugins installed in my lib directory, so it's not that "heavy"
> version with everything installed.  But it might make installing what
> extras you do need easier.
>
>
> --
> Bill Moseley
> moseley at hank.org
>
>
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