[Catalyst] Article on web frameworks ommits Catalyst

[John Napiorkowski]

--- Matt S Trout <dbix-class at trout.me.uk> wrote:

> 
> On 2 Jan 2007, at 14:33, John Napiorkowski wrote:
> 
> >
> > --- Kieren Diment <diment at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Hey,
> >>
> >> There's an article, "Web Framework Manifesto"
> here:
> >>
> >
>
http://blog.lostlake.org/index.php?/archives/16-Web-Framework-
> 
> > Manifesto.html
> >>
> >> I've written a comment in the article suggesting
> >> that this is a pretty major
> >> ommission and that he might want to evaluate
> >> Catalyst and do an update.  The
> >> author seems coherent and reasonably knowledgable
> to
> >> me, so how bout it
> >> guys?  Maybe you should let him know his mistake
> >> too?
> >
> > This is actually quite an interesting thoughtdump
> on
> > what we'd like in a web development framework. 
> Some
> > of the things mentioned, such as a great
> dispatching
> > system, straightforward ORM support and easy to
> extend
> > APIS (Plugins, customized Controllers, Views or
> > Models) we have.  However some of the things
> mentioned
> > I don't see as current strong points of Catalyst,
> such
> > as the idea of web pages being highly
> componentized
> > and capable of managing their own state.  This
> could
> > just be my ignorance though.
> >
> 
> I don't really think that belongs in Catalyst base;
> I'm implementing  
> highly componentised UI development with automatic
> state management  
> in Reaction and I'm not finding doing so "on top" of
> Catalyst any  
> harder than it'd be to hack it into the core.
> 
> > The article is big on continuations.  Catalyst has
> a
> > plugin for this but I'm not sure many people know
> what
> > to do with it or what the advantages could be.  To
> be
> > honest I'm not someone that could answer that
> > question.
> 
> Web development is effectively stateless - or at
> least HTTP is. I  
> tend to find continuation usage is almost invariably
> an XY problem -  
> i.e. if you need continuations to implement your
> design, you should  
> probably rethink it.

I've been thinking similar things, I tend to want to
build my applications an interface on top of a REST
inspired service.  I'm finding the ATOM API to be
great inspiration for this and for those things that
don't fit into REST well there is XMLRPC, which is
well supported in Catalyst.

I'm thinking this might actually have some value for
narrow needs; people seem to suggest continuations
make creating context sensitive wizard style forms
more straightforward.  However the effort required to
understand the approach makes me wonder if it's worth
the time to figure it out.  I don't make a lot of
wizard like web forms.

--john

> 
> -- 
> Matt S Trout, Technical Director, Shadowcat Systems
> Ltd.
> Offering custom development, consultancy and support
> contracts for  
> Catalyst,
> DBIx::Class and BAST. Contact mst (at)
> shadowcatsystems.co.uk for  
> details.
> + Help us build a better perl ORM: http://dbix- 
> class.shadowcatsystems.co.uk/ +
> 
> 
> 
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